Dehner on the Offensive Line

[Jmble]

Paul Dehner posted a nice little mailbag on the offensive line today. It has some good stuff in it.

CINCINNATI — Fears have not been eased about protecting Joe Burrow. At least, if fan reaction offers any indication.

Fright and visions of Burrow on the cart are still haunting after a free-agency period that helped but didn’t offer an overwhelming feeling of safety in the state of the line entering 2021.

Of all the questions dropped into the mailbag, 40 percent of them revolved around the guard position in some form or fashion. You know, you guys value guard almost as much as the Bengals front office doesn’t. Impressive. I’m going to try to hit on all the major themes of the questions here even though not all the names or specific questions will be listed.

In fact, I’m dedicating this entire mailbag to offensive line questions since it is dominating your days and nights.

Thanks again to everyone for the questions, I will get to the other topics in a future second part of this mailbag.

Samuel P.: Are the Bengals really not going to try to go after any guards better than Nick Easton who seems like a depth piece when Larry Warford and Trai Turner are still out there as potential low-risk, high-reward targets? Are they just overrating their current group or do you think they are banking on the draft too much?

Bengals fans really like Trai Turner. At least the most vocal of those in this mailbag and on Twitter do. There are two words the Bengals need to be using for their offensive linemen in the quest for #NoDonkeys: consistency and reliability. They found just that in Riley Reiff at right tackle. Turner would qualify as the exact opposite at this point.

Here’s what we know for sure about Turner. Two teams gave up on him in the last two years. The Panthers had every reason to keep him in house. They drafted him, they paid him, he’d gone to five Pro Bowls with them, he was in his mid-20s. That is not the type of situation that warrants dealing a player. Yet, they did, to the Chargers in exchange for Russell Okung (a solid, but then 32-year-old, left tackle).

Then, Turner arrives in Los Angeles, battles through injuries, the pandemic is going on, maybe the mesh with the team wasn’t right. Hard to say exactly what happened for him last year other than he was a disaster. For those complaining about Michael Jordan’s PFF grade of 55.7, well, Turner churned out a 34.8. That ranked 84th out of 86 qualifying guards.

There is a reward aspect to him wherever he lands. He could return to the quality level he played at during his early years in Carolina. He is still only 27. But teams aren’t exactly beating down his door and this might be one of the riskiest plays the team could make if it signed him and slotted him as a starter.

The team did work on Turner, as you would expect. But signing Quinton Spain made much more sense and delivers more reliability and consistency. They know Spain. They met him for half a season last year and his attitude impressed inside the building. He stepped in without knowing anybody and acquitted himself well. There’s interest in seeing what that output looks like with a full camp to get in lockstep with his teammates. You could also see former Saints guard Nick Easton come in and I’ve heard good reports out of New Orleans about him being a capable starter in this league.

With Spain, the floor is higher. The Bengals need a high floor much more than they need a high ceiling.

As for the draft side of this question, I think they are relying on the draft delivering them an immediate starter at one of the two guard spots. If you end up with the best of Xavier Su’a-Filo, Spain and the potential to reinvigorate Jordan under a new line coach, one of those should offer a decent starter at the other spot and provide reliable enough depth.

John K.: Missing out on more established free agent interior offensive linemen was a huge miss. Do you get the sense that the front office has failed to come through on their commitment to protect Burrow? Or is there the thought that remaining free agent interior offensive linemen or perhaps a trade could still be in the works?

I think the front office didn’t aggressively pursue the offensive line in the first half of free agency because it had eyes on the defensive side of the ball. That’s tough to imagine, but it’s the way it played out. The Bengals were involved with Kevin Zeitler and felt good about the chance of landing him. The Ravens swooped in and got him. He was coveted by multiple teams in a scarce guard market. It happens, but it’s tough to see the deal come in at the reasonable figure it did and wonder why the Bengals didn’t just make a more aggressive original offer to remove all doubt. That’s a fail. Same argument to a lesser degree with Matt Feiler, who would have helped and added versatility. But you’ll take Reiff at essentially the same deal and be happy with it. So, they are guilty of the accusation, in my eyes, but also victimized by a tough year in free agency to improve the line. Note that Joe Thuney, Corey Linsley and Trent Williams all topped the market at their positions. Supply and demand fell in their favor.

I doubt we’ll see a trade because I don’t think the Bengals have much to offer if they aren’t willing to deal draft picks, an idea director of player personnel Duke Tobin scoffed at in our Zoom with him earlier this month. Now, perhaps they move back in the draft and add a player as part of the deal, but that’s unlikely. Also, everyone in the building might suffer from Cordy Glenn flashbacks. Any move back would almost certainly be in a desire to land extra picks.

Jeff G.: Still lots of fan angst about the offensive line, even after the Reiff signing. Is it warranted? What are the odds that a Round 1 or 2 pick can come in and contribute at a high level right away?

Yes, an offensive lineman selected in the first or second round can come in and contribute at a high level right away. It happens all the time.

Here are the number of rookie offensive linemen to take at least 600 snaps each of the last four years and how many PFF graded with at least a 65. For reference, the Bengals haven’t had a guard grade at 65 or better with a minimum of 200 snaps since Clint Boling in 2017.

Year: Qualifying rookie OL/Graded 65 or better
• 2020: 14/6
• 2019: 10/2
• 2018: 11/7
• 2017: 6/4

That’s 19 out of 41 rookies graded better than anyone for the Bengals has the last three seasons. Those are nice odds. Most of the other half fall into the same category as the Bengals have trotted out. When you are using a first- or second-round pick, those odds understandably go up even more.

You drop Penei Sewell, Rashawn Slater or Alijah Vera-Tucker in there and the position shifts from weakness to strength overnight.

Richard P.: As of today, please predict the 2021 starting offensive line. Thanks.

With all this said, here is my projected starting OL in 2021 at this moment plus four active game day backups on the depth chart.

• LT Jonah Williams — Penei Sewell — Hakeem Adeniji
• LG Quinton Spain — Xavier Su’a-Filo
• C Trey Hopkins — Billy Price
• RG Penei Sewell — Xavier Su’a-Filo
• RT Riley Reiff — Penei Sewell — Hakeem Adeniji

This group would not rival the 1988 Bengals. However, you can win with them. You feel comfortable with them. That’s the more important accomplishment. You have enough depth to not cause heart palpitations when a player goes down with an injury. You employ your tackles of the future in Williams and Sewell. The hope becomes offensive line coach Frank Pollack can not only get the most out of the starters but also develop the youth and depth as well as invigorate the running game for Joe Mixon again.

Meetal M: At 5, would you trade down to 13 to get Slater?

Now we can dive into the draft side of the offensive line conversation. Yes, I would trade back to 13 — more importantly, I think they do. The top tier of offensive line targets in this draft is Sewell, Slater and Vera-Tucker. If the Bengals land one of those three they have checked a major box for now and could have a star into the future.

All three would play guard today and tackle long-term for the Bengals, with Vera-Tucker maybe more slated to guard depending on who is evaluating. You should be able to land one of those three at 13. You get nervous going much deeper than that, which gets particularly intriguing if New England ends up being the best trade offer to go all the way back to 15, which is what happened in our latest beat writer mock draft. I’d still go back to 15, especially for the deal our Patriots writer Jeff Howe offered (15, 46 and first-round pick next year in exchange for 5 and this year’s fourth-round pick). That allows the Bengals to land a starting guard with one of the two second-round picks.

Slot in Alex Leatherwood, Deonte Brown or Landon Dickerson from Alabama, Jalen Mayfield of Michigan or Wyatt Davis of Ohio State. There’s also a handful of intriguing options in the wave beyond those names like Senior Bowl star Quinn Meinerz of Wisconsin-Whitewater. You also have one of the deepest tackle drafts in recent memory at your disposal, if that ends up being the direction with the second-round selection. Williams and Reiff both willingly offer position versatility, if necessary to kick inside.

Matt S.: With all the talk of moving possible top-tier tackle prospects in to guard, wouldn’t it seem to be a waste of talent with someone with great athleticism like Sewell in there?

You may be correct, Matt. Sewell’s wild athleticism would suggest he belongs on the outside. He’s also 20 years old and hasn’t played in over a year. He played college ball in the PAC-12 and didn’t exactly take on a litany of great pass rushers. You can ease him in by starting inside. Obviously, you’d work in tackle snaps in practice and preseason to get his feet wet. He would still be the swing tackle. And he would almost certainly be the starting tackle on either the left or right side in 2022. There’s a debate to be had about picking a guy, putting him at one position and letting him settle in for the long haul. That may inevitably be the right move for Sewell if he shows up and is a freakish brick wall immediately in camp and preseason games. For now, though, with the idea of finding the best protection for Burrow and giving Sewell time to adjust to the NFL game, even he could benefit from this start. Doing it this way didn’t hurt Andrew Whitworth when he entered in 2006 and he’s far from the only player to start a career in this capacity.

Mike R.: Paul, do you think Burrow’s team — “agent, parents, etc.” — voice their displeasure with the way the team trusted the offensive line last year and lack of truly trying to fix it thus far in free agency? It’s very concerning to me.

Thanks for the question, Mike. You never know what is truly going on behind the scenes. Go back to Carson Palmer in 2011 or even Deshaun Watson this past year in Houston. There can be rumblings and growing speculation, but until the decision of that magnitude is made to go public against a team, almost nobody can say for sure. As for Burrow, I have never had any impression his camp has issues with the Bengals’ dedication to protecting him. I think Burrow knew what he was getting himself into. Remember, this is a young man who cultivated a relationship with Peyton Manning and heard the stories of the beating Manning took in his first season with the Colts. Manning talking to him about how teams pick first for a reason. Burrow is locked in here at least through the duration of his rookie contract and if he plays up to expectations, there is little doubt the Bengals will pony up whatever extravagant amount of money is required to employ a top-tier quarterback at that time. There’s plenty to like about the concept.

At least through what you hear and in Burrow’s forward-facing words, he’s shown great maturity in understanding the plan and potentially is about to see a veteran right tackle and a top draft pick dedicated to keeping him upright. That matters. We would seem to be a long way from the point of speculating on Burrow’s displeasure with the line and an even longer way from anybody knowing about the displeasure even if it is building. From my seat, there does not appear to be evidence of any such issues.

Sean C.: There are four guards on the entire roster, and since Keaton Sutherland has barely played even with their issues, you could argue they only really have three and no good ones. If Burrow’s demolished leg wasn’t enough to turn over that position early on, nothing will. We all know the team doesn’t value that position, but I’m curious specifically as to why. In a league that throws every down (including Zac Taylor’s pass-happy play-calling), why do they still feel interior offensive line doesn’t need to contribute to win?

Sean, this is a good question and one they have never really answered no matter how many times I ask. The basics of the answer require changing the question. They do think guards need to contribute to win. They just think you can find and develop good ones much easier than using top draft picks or paying top dollar. It’s the way a portion of the league looks at the running back position. These backs can be found, developed and don’t need to be given large second contracts. The Bengals, along with a surprising number of other teams who dished out a decent amount of cash for running backs the last 10 months, think the running back position still matters. They will also argue great teams aren’t led by great guards. Tackles make the most money for a reason, even as the game changes and interior line play grows in importance. This philosophy can be maddening for fans and exasperating when the attempts to develop guards have failed time and again since Kevin Zeitler left.

Who is right? Take a look at the top 10 guards by PFF grade last season and where they came from.

• Wyatt Teller, Browns: fifth round (2018)
• Ali Marpet, Buccaneers: second round (2015)
• Quenton Nelson, Colts: first round (2018)
• Shaq Mason, Patriots: fourth round (2015)
• Joel Bitonio, Browns: second round (2014)
• Brandon Scherff, Washington: first round (2015)
• Laken Tomlinson, 49ers: first round (2015)
• Chris Lindstrom, Falcons: first round (2019)
• Joe Thuney, Patriots: third round (2016)
• Nate Herbig, Eagles: UDFA (2019)

Seven of the 10 came in the first two days of the draft and half were first-round picks. There isn’t a ton of developing late-round picks into elite guards. It happens, but not often. The best bet involves taking a premium draft pick and spending it on the position. The Bengals have gone down that road before with Eric Steinbach (33 overall) and Zeitler (27), specifically. Perhaps this ends up the year that happens again. But you are right, the idea of paying top dollar for the position was solidified last week. If the Bengals won’t do it in this circumstance, it will never happen.

[Bengals1]

Obviously there is still time left in Free Agency and the Bengals may yet sign another O-linemen or two.

But as we stand here today I think they're content to go into the Draft with what they've got and fill in the Guard spot with either their first or second pick.

If it's Penile they'll most likely play him at Guard next to Reiff for a season to get him NFL experience. Same if they fall back and take Slater (who might project better to Guard anyway).

If Swallow is gone and there's no trade offer that blows them away I expect they'll take either a WR or the TE out of Florida and look for they're next O-linemen in round two.

But it's all just speculation at this point....

[Jmble]

Obviously there is still time left in Free Agency and the Bengals may yet sign another O-linemen or two.

But as we stand here today I think they're content to go into the Draft with what they've got and fill in the Guard spot with either their first or second pick.

If it's Penile they'll most likely play him at Guard next to Reiff for a season to get him NFL experience. Same if they fall back and take Slater (who might project better to Guard anyway).

If Swallow is gone and there's no trade offer that blows them away I expect they'll take either a WR or the TE out of Florida and look for they're next O-linemen in round two.

But it's all just speculation at this point....

Did you just summarize that entire article and type it out as your own opinion? lol

Everything you just said is in that column.

[Bengals1]

Did you just summarize that entire article and type it out as your own opinion? lol

Everything you just said is in that column.

My opinion is about as good as Dehner's I guess...

[MeatHeadbengal]

Driving around all morning that's pretty much all the talk on the radio sports channels. They also said that this is a very deep draft for Tackles and that if Swallows is gone at 5 Chase is a very good possibility and then drafting a RT in the second like the kids from Texas or Alabama who will more then likely be there. Which I don't think is a bad plan either, Cinci needs that deep threat which Chase was at LSU.

[Joe Bananas]

Driving around all morning that's pretty much all the talk on the radio sports channels. They also said that this is a very deep draft for Tackles and that if Swallows is gone at 5 Chase is a very good possibility and then drafting a RT in the second like the kids from Texas or Alabama who will more then likely be there. Which I don't think is a bad plan either, Cinci needs that deep threat which Chase was at LSU.

Agree. Don't reach for Slater at 5!! Pick Chase, Pitts and get your Tackle in the second!

[MeatHeadbengal]

Driving around all morning that's pretty much all the talk on the radio sports channels. They also said that this is a very deep draft for Tackles and that if Swallows is gone at 5 Chase is a very good possibility and then drafting a RT in the second like the kids from Texas or Alabama who will more then likely be there. Which I don't think is a bad plan either, Cinci needs that deep threat which Chase was at LSU.

Agree. Don't reach for Slater at 5!! Pick Chase, Pitts and get your Tackle in the second!

So I really haven't heard anyone saying we take Pitts, more if Swallows or Chase aren't there they look for a trade to the low teens, 10-13 or so and then take someone there and pick up good draft stock.

[4256 Hits]

Driving around all morning that's pretty much all the talk on the radio sports channels. They also said that this is a very deep draft for Tackles and that if Swallows is gone at 5 Chase is a very good possibility and then drafting a RT in the second like the kids from Texas or Alabama who will more then likely be there. Which I don't think is a bad plan either, Cinci needs that deep threat which Chase was at LSU.

Agree. Don't reach for Slater at 5!! Pick Chase, Pitts and get your Tackle in the second!

So I really haven't heard anyone saying we take Pitts, more if Swallows or Chase aren't there they look for a trade to the low teens, 10-13 or so and then take someone there and pick up good draft stock.

Not that it means anything but Mel has Bengals taking Pitts. I don't want him at 5, either take Penile of trade back.

[Bengals1]

Not that it means anything but Mel has Bengals taking Pitts. I don't want him at 5, either take Penile of trade back.

I've actually seen quite a few mock drafts that have us taking Pitts at #5.

[Jmble]

I'm okay with Slater at 5 if Sewell is gone. My first choice if Sewell and Chase are gone would be to trade back. If you can't trade back I have no problem with grabbing a guy that is at arguably our biggest need. Slater is currently number 12 on PFF's Big Board. He's number 11 on Mel Kiper's Big Board. Four of the guys in front of him are QBs. You'd rather not take the number 12 guy on the board at 5, but when he plays the biggest position of need for the team, it just doesn't feel like that big of a reach.

Having said that, if Sewell and Chase are both gone by number five there are going to be some QBs on the board that might make it a lot easier for us to trade down.

PFF's latest Mock has us trading down with the Panthers to number 8 and taking Slater. This would be an ideal scenario in my opinion, given Chase and Sewell being off the board.